In his 2020 Reith Lectures, Mark Carney challenged us with the overall question: How do we rethink the Economy and the economic aspect of life in the light of the three crises: credit crisis of 2008, Covid-19 crisis of 2020-21, and the coming climate crisis?
This page collects together topics were mentioned during the lectures, and in subsequent discussions by the Reith Lecture Discussion Group, and organises them. The reason for doing so is to encourage and assist and stimulate the rethinking that is necessary. It also adds a perspective from Reformational (Dooyeweerdian) philosophy and Christian thinking, in a way that might contribute to the overall discourse.
We recognise that, on one hand, many who wish to rethink do so without reference to the realities of economics and, on the other, those steeped in economics, finance, etc. accept things largely as they are and are not sufficiently aware of the coming crises, thinking for example, only "Let us get the economy booming again after the pandemic" and not whether certain sectors need to be allowed to remain shrunken. Mark Carney, once Governor of the Bank of England, clearly linked the two sides. We wish to do so too.
The whole page consists of individual items, which are linked together, so by clicking the reader can move around, from one to others. The items are grouped into sections and subsections. The structure of items is explained in the Key below.
Contents:
Key:
Each topic contains:
- Name or phrase of the topic
- More: Longer description, if needed
- Bullets to augment the 'More' with material from the lectures or comments
- Who: Main source(s) of topic
- Aspects: In which aspects this topic seems meaningful (click each for more)):
- *qy: Quantitative aspect: (to do with quantity, amount)
- *sp: Spatial aspect: (to do with continuous extension, space)
- *kn: Kinematic aspect: (to do with movement; flowing movement)
- *ph: Physical aspect: (to do with energy + causality)
- *bi: Biotic aspect: (to do with life functions)
- *ps: Psychical / Sensitive aspect: (to do with sense, feeling, emotion)
- *an: Analytical aspect: (to do with distinguishing and logic)
- *fv: Formative aspect: (to do with deliberate forming, as in planning, design, structuring, technology, history and culture)
- *lg: Lingual aspect: (to do with symbolic signification that makes data possible and enables communication)
- *sc: Social aspect: (to do with social interaction and agreement that enables working together)
- *ec: Economic aspect: (to do with frugal use of resources)
- *ae: Aesthetic aspect: (to do with harmony, surprise, fun)
- *jr: Juridical aspect: (to do with appropriateness and 'due', rights and responsibilities)
- *et: Ethical aspect: (to do with self-giving love, going beyond due)
- *ft: Faith / Pistic aspect: (to do with belief, aspiration, commitment, ultimate meaning, religion/ideology)
- Links to other topics (click on them).
The sources are indicated by code as follows:
- [m1nn], [m2nn], [m3nn], [m4nn] - From Mark Carney's Lectures, with partial transcript in plain text form in carney.txt file.
- [qxnn] - questions from floor during lectures, in same plain text file.
- [aann] - questions by host, Anita Anand, in same file.
- [z1nn] From Zoom discusison 1, , found in comments.html file.
- [z2nn] From Zoom discusison 2, , found in z2.txt file.
- [cxnn], [jxnn], [sxnn], etc. - comments by various people, found in comments.html file.
- [abnn] comments by Andrew Basden (compiler of this) made while he was listening to the lecture, found in comments.html file and also in carney.txt file.
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OVERALL CHALLENGE
The overall challenge that Mark Carney gave us is:
Challenge: We must rethink
- More: Need to rethink the economy, economics, wealth, etc. in the light of the climate crisis, Covid-19 pandemic and the 2008 economic crash.
- "realign the financial sector" [m479]
- "this [covid] crisis is an opportunity to reset What do we value?" [m346].
- "The concept of value, synonymous with economic theory a century ago, is now barely discussed." [m117]
- "Mariana Maxicado makes the case forcefully that we need a contested debate on value. So let's have one." [m117]
- Need to choose which sectors of the economy to shrink or support. [m328]
- The public services sector needs rethink ("we working in old models of public services" [q305])
- "What's involved in rethinking the economy?" [z101]
- Need a basis on which to decide. [ab]
- "build from first principles" [q306]
- Xn: Revivals are one way to get society rethinking [ab21]
- Who: m408, m334, m328, m346, z101
- Aspects: *an *fv *sc *ec *ae *et *ft
- Links to: Choosing sectors of economy to shrink or support, Working from old models of public services, First principles, Values, Value, Good, Human sin, Pistic aspect: perspective, presuppositions, Wealth, How to articulate different values
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PROBLEMS
This section collects problems that have been mentioned. They are by no means all the problems.
General Problems
Problem: The drift from moral to market sentiments.
- More: The theme of Mark Carney's first lecture. How economics/market-thinking has obliterated moral considerations and how that thinking has led to our major problems. Calling for a return to recognising all the aspects of life
- Who: Lecture 1. m132
- Aspects: *kn *an *sc *ec *et *ft
- Links to: Multi-aspectual human functioning, Single Aspect focus causes problems
Problem: Marketisation of life and society
- More:
- "the corrosion of values arising from pricing of goods, services and civic virtues that have been traditionally outside the market" [m134]
- "Could the emphasis on the individual over the community, or on our selfish traits over our altruisic ones, imperil both the market's effectiveness in determining value and ultimately society's values?" [m142]
- Who:
- Aspects: *sc *ec *ft
- Links to: Monetisation, Values, Single aspect isolation
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Problems of Situation
Problem: The 2008 crash
- More:
- Who: m201
- Aspects: *qv *ec
- Links to:
Problem: Climate change emissions
- More: Must fall by by 8% per year [m406].
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *fv *jr *ft
- Links to:
Problem: Outsourcing climate change emissions
- More: The UK and many other wealthy countries have reduced their CC emissions by 'outsourcing' them to developing countries.
- "moving carbon emission out of UK to developing countries keeping our turfs green and polluting other countries" [c202] [208]
- Who:
- Aspects: *sp *ph *ec *jr *et
- Links to: Hypocrisy, Climate change, Net zero target, Fast fashion industry
Problem: Urgency
- More: There is urgency to act on climate change (and environmental problems)
- "Already too late to do enough about climate etc." [q406] But Mark Carney responded "But innovation and economy can help" [m476]
- Neil Fergusson believed "Lomberg's False Alarm book: Immediate action would wreck the economu" [q408] But Mark Carney retorted, "his book is a classic econ approach which i reject."
- David King: "I am extremely worried" [q413] But Mark Carney answered about buying time [m484] and that direct air capture will be necessary [m485].
- Who: m407
- Aspects: *ps *fv *ft
- Links to:
Problem: Carbon taxes too small
- More: "only $3 per tonne . needed to be $75 per tonne." [m414]. "Why does somebody have to be paid not be a jerk?"
- Who: m414
- Aspects: *qv *ph *lg *ec *jr
- Links to: Taxes
Problem: China
- More: "If China not constrained, ..." [q409] [212]
- Who: q409
- Aspects: *sp *an *sc *jr
- Links to:
Problem: Hospitality sector decimated by Covid-19
- More:
- Who: m308
- Aspects: *qv *ps *fv *sc *ec *ae
- Links to:
Problem: USA, The United States of America
- More: The USA has been elevating its own economy above its responsibility to the world that (Christian thinking believes) is laid on the wealthy. In particular, it has actively pursued environmentally damaging policies under Trump, and even under Biden it is unlikely to undo all the damage that has been done.
- "putting econ before health [and climate and environmental responsibility] in USA; international repercussions. " [q303].
- "US economy will be weaker in 6 months than it would have been" [m343] - c.f. Inter-aspect
- Many (vocal) USA evangelical Christians Christians are, it seems to me, following things other than Christ, and are misrepresenting Christ in and to the world. [ab22] Is their idol anti-socialism? Or anti-abortion?
- Who: q303
- Aspects: *sp *ec *ft
- Links to: Idolatry
Problem: "we working in old models of public services" [q305].
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Problems of Attitude, Perspective, Beliefs, Assumptions
Problem: Green window dressing
- More: People, companies, governments etc. seeming to do green things whereas the are not really serious about it.
- "no. GWD devalue views of millions of people. [m475] [c.f. Good in people]
- Who: q405,
- Aspects: *lg *jr *et
- Links to:
Problem: Flattening of values
- More: All kinds of value are reduced to one criterion or measurement criterion.
- "forcing decisions to be made according to utilitarian calculations." [m135]
- "The disadvantage [of subjective value. market pricing] is that it sets in train a process in which welfare is interpreted simply as the sum of all prices. This flattens values, padding them up with no consideration of their hierarchy or distribution." [m158]
- "The price of everything becomes the value of everything." [m171]
- "move beyond exchange as the value we value most. What else can we value more?" [j102]
- Dooyeweerd: Value-flattening ignores the diffeences betweenthe Good offered by different aspects, either ignoring their meaningfulness and norms, or reducing them to one or two aspects, in this case the analytical and economic. [ab]
- Dooyeweerd's aspects offer a way to address the problem of value flattening. [ab] [m158]
- Xn, Dooyeweerd: "In the image of God, could we see the value of each person? So an aspectual/pistic move could be to "peg" reporting and results to each life." [j103]
- Who: m135
- Aspects: *ec *jr *ft
- Links to: Values, Single aspect isolation, Analytical aspect, Good, Multi-aspectual good
Problem: Taken for granted
- More: Problem: Things are taken for granted that should not be. Especially, Values are taken for granted
- "these values have increasingly been taken for granted" because of the shift to marketization of life [m137]
- Who:
- Aspects: *an *sc *ft
- Links to:
Problem: Children unhappy
- More: "UK National Children's Society brings out report: children in UK least happy." [x252]
- Who: z252
- Aspects: *bi *ps *sc *jr
- Links to: Children
Problem: Dominance of economics / markets
Problem: Financialisation; Monetisation
- More: Assuming that price incorporates total (economic) value [ASS]
- Ignores and cannot cope with Non-monetary value
- "MC avoided the issue of the financialisation of all" [z209] [ab: actually I think he addressed that; used the term "monetisation"
- Who: j211, z209
- Aspects: *qv *ec *ft
- Links to: Externalities, Price, Value, Pistic aspect: assumptions
Problem: Supply and demand as only considerations
- More: "Simply stated, this is creating a ratings or pricing or measurement system of not just supply and demand [j213], but supply and demand and (environmental or other aspectual) impact [j214]."
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *ec *jr
- Links to: Supply, demand and impact
Problem: Why did nobody see the 2008 crash coming?
Problem: Different thinking about Covid-19 and climate change.
- More: Shift from long-term to short-term thinking, from global to localCovid-19 makes us think short-term and about individuals; climate change requires long-term, global thinking.
- Climate change (cc), the effects of individual actions are very diffuse, widespread, and the time-horizon is very long. But now Covid-19 is everything climate is not. Can link effects to specific events; timescale is weeks not decades; short term and focus on individual. [q308]
- Who:
- Aspects: *ph *bi *an *sc *ft
- Links to:
Problem: Short-term thinking
- More:
- "Can link effects to specific events; timescale is weeks not decades; short term and focus on individual." [q309]
- Who:
- Aspects: *an *ae *jr *ft
- Links to:
Problem: Unbridled dominance of market thinking
- More: Part of the problem was that market had fewer and fewer constraints.
- "the social constraints on unbridled capitalism - religion and the social contract - have been steadily eased. ... the spread of the market grew unchecked." [m119]
- "The convention then: the market is always right." [m120]
- "Faith can guide life but blind policy. Such trust led to the only solution to market failures was to add more markets or reduce regulation further." [m122]
- Who: m119
- Aspects: *ec *ae *jr *ft
- Links to: Pistic aspect: idolatry and blind faith
Problem: Crises and their causes
- More: "A common cause to the three crises [m438]: credit, covid and climate is ..."
- Who: m438
- Aspects: *fv *ae
- Links to:
Problem: Our economy depends on measuring
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Problems in Structures of Society
Problem: Monopolies
- More: "when one or a few companies control a market"
- "prices are too high and production is too low." [m125]
- Who: m125
- Aspects: *qv *fv *sc *ec *ae
- Links to:
Problem: The fast fashion industry
- More: Fast fashion industry
- production in developing countries
- "underpay women and children" [c203]
- outsourcing carbon emissionsmoving carbon emission out of UK to developing countries keeping our turfs green and polluting other countries.
- "not employ children in supply chain. But fast fashion." [z267].
- fast fashion is a non-essential of the wealthy. [ab]
- Who: [c202]
- Aspects: *fv *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to: Children, Non-essentials
Problem: Bloated economies
- More: Our (western) economies are bloated [ab12] [z131]
- bloated with much that is non-necessary or "useless" and much of that useless part is harmful. [ab03]
- So it would be good to shrink them rather than seeking to restore GDP growth to what it was. [ab12] See Choosing secturs of the economy
- Who: ab12
- Aspects: *bi *ec *ae *jr *ft
- Links to: Good, Harmful, Useless parts of the economy
Problem: Trading money rather than goods
- More: Before money would purchase goods, but today "a great focus is pure trading and market" [z210]
- Who: z210
- Aspects: *qv *an *lg *ec
- Links to:
Problem:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
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Potential Problems
Problem: Bank failure
- More: especially after 2008 crash.
- Who:
- Aspects: *fv *sc *ec
- Links to: Bank soundness
Problem: Despair about solving these problems, especially climate change.
- More: "Covid-19 was short-term and obvious; climate change is long-term and non-obvious." "If we (e.g. USA) cannot respond properly to Covid-19, how on earth can we respond properly to the challenge of climate change?" [z130]
- "Argue me out of the pessimism I'm feeling right now. If we can't respond properly to this short-term crisis, what hope is that we can respond to the even bigger thing that is climate change?" [q310]
- MC tried to answer this by pointing to countries that had SARS seem to be doing better [m354] and the 126 countries signed up to netzero targets [m355]
- AB: I see spiritual revival in the heart of many many people to be the only answer, and it is certainly an answer. Plead with God.
- Who: q310, Paul Krugeman z130
- Aspects: *ps *sc *ft
- Links to: Short-term thinking, Different thinking about Covid-19 and climate change, Revival, Hope based on God
Problem:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
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UNDERSTANDING AND RETHINKING THE ECONOMY
This section gives topics that have been mentioned, which relate to ways of understanding the economy and economy as such, which should be useful in rethinking it.
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Topics about the Context in which The Economy Operates
Context: Covid-19 pandemic
Context: Covid-19 gives us an opportunity to change course
Context: Sustainability, especially environmental and involving our economic functioning
Context: Climate Change
- More:
- "Climate change (cc), the effects of individual actions are very diffuse, widespread, and the time-horizon is very long. [q308]. But now Covid-19 is everything climate is not."
- Mark Carney too optimistic? [c201]
- "if I spill uranium on your ground then it is a localised event and you can see who is responsible, whereas I emit a couple of gigatons of CO2, they are mixed with others, and consequences removed from my act" [z212]
- Who: ab13
- Aspects: *kn *ph *bi *fv *sc *ec *ae *ft
- Links to: Sustainability, Climate and environmental responsibility, Responsibility for unknown neighbour
Context: Net Zero target for carbon emissions
- More:
- UK target net zero by 2050 [s102]. China by 2060.
- "moving carbon emission out of UK to developing countries keeping our turfs green and polluting other countries" [c202]
- "can I neglect human rights" [c203]
- environmental protection and reaching netzero is "a shared responsibility" not just for wealthy nations to reach and then point the finger at developing countries [c209]
- Is "Netzero premature and overdrawn" [z202]
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *ph *fv *jr *ft
- Links to: Climate change, Hypocrisy, Human rights
Context: Justice
- More: Of many kinds and to many kinds. To people, to people in different cohorts, to 'the other', to nature, to planet, to future generations, etc.
- Who: ab
- Aspects: *sc *ec *jr
- Links to: Juridical aspect, Future, Inequalities, Human rights, Climate change
Context: Environmental Impact
- More: (Negative) Environmental impact because of economy and economic activity.
- "Ford, General Motors and Nissan are sourcing pig iron that has resulted in destruction of amazon rainforest, slave labour, land conflict with indigenous tribe. Rainforests are cut and burned to power blast furnaces ..." [c208]
- Who: j213
- Aspects: *ph *bi *fv *ec *jr *et
- Links to:
Context: The young
- More:
- unemployment affects the young etc. more [m310]
- "the young will pay the price, including higher taxes later" [m312]
- "Covid affects the old more than the young" [m332]
- Who:
- Aspects: *bi *ps *an *sc *ec *jr
- Links to: Social aspect, cohorts, Future generations, Children
Context: Children must also be taken into account
Context: Disadvantaged groups, cohorts
- More:
- in uk, men in low-skilled jobs more likely to die of Covid-19. similarly for BAME [m307]
- unemployment affects the young etc. more [m310]
- Who:
- Aspects: *an *sc *jr
- Links to: Juridical aspect, Social aspect, Inequalities
Context: Freedom rather than totalitarian control
- More:
- Who: z254
- Aspects: *fv *ft
- Links to:
Context:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
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Some Basic Concepts Relevant to The Economy
This section collects concepts relavant to the economy that have been mentioned.
Issue: Human Functioning
- More: Human functioning is what human beings do, in any and all of their aspects. Can be good, harmful or useless. Much today is paid for (wages) so its value or good / harm can be measured, but much also is not paid for, and hence beyond measurement and has non-monetary value or anti-value.
- "Continuous exchange marks all human interactions: exchanges of good in markets, exchanges of meanings in markets, exchanges of regard and esteem in the formation of moral and social norms." - the central concept in Adam Smith. [m111]
- Human functioning is complex. "We are far from perfectly rational when making decisions." [m129]
- It is human functioning that is important, not GDP or even the economy as such, because the importance of money flow is that it enables some more human functioning, which might be good, harmful or useless. But some is harmful. [ab02]
- Dooyeweerd: All human functioning is multi-aspectual, in all aspects simultaneously. [ab]
- Who: ab02, m402, z132
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to: Good, Harmful, Useless, Aspects, Impact, Value, Non-monetary value, Measuring Value, Beyond Measuring, Labour, Human frailties
Issue: Good
Issue: Common Good
- More:
- Self-giving r.t. selfishiness. Example from Simone: building an aqueduct to bring water just for your garden, or for the whole city [z262]
- Catholic tradition. links with Common Grace: [z264]
- "surprising among consensus about common good" [z265]
- Examples: Fun, justice [z265]
- Dooyeweerd: aspects come into play? [z263]
- Dooyeweerd: Each common good is agreement on the meaningfulness of aspectual norms? [z266]
- Who: z262
- Aspects: *sc *et
- Links to: Good, Ethical aspect, Attitude, Heart
Issue: Goods (including services)
- More: Resources of any kind expected to bring some Good. Good treated economically as products.
- Who: z106
- Aspects: *ec *et
- Links to: Value, Resource
Issue: Good, Harmful, Useless parts of the economy
- More: "GDP and money flow might be good, harmful or useless. This is because they express, enable and encourage paid-for parts of human functioning, and this may be good, harmful or useless. Differentiating between the GHU in the economy helps us know which parts to shrink and grow, especially after a crisis.
- This includes paid-for human functioning as constituted in and expressed by The Economy
- "corroded when financial returns become disembodied from their impact on other stakeholders." [m144]
- Who: j221, ab03, z132
- Aspects: *an *fv *ec *ae *jr
- Links to: The Economy, Choosing sectors to reopen or shrink, Bloated economies
Issue: Negative goods
- More: goods with negative repercussions
- "Some negative, not positive." [z244]
- idea of positive and negative: "easy to do the maths + -" [z249]
- Who: z244
- Aspects: *qv *jr
- Links to: Goods, Measuring, Human sin, Good, Harmful, Useless
Issue: Corporate Social Responsibility and Ethical organisations
- More: The commitment (by organisations, governments etc.) to do good, and conduct their operations in such a way as to not do harm.
- An alternative to measuring and planning [z241]
- CSR, Naming and shaming, Ethical trade. [z241]
- Dooyeweerd: Doing good without condition is ethical aspect, avoiding or doing harm is juridical aspect.
- Who: z241
- Aspects: *jr *et *ft
- Links to: Legislation, Obedience, Ethical aspect
Issue: Labour
- More: Human functioning, the main meaningfulness of which, is to produce some resource. It is functioning in the economic and formative aspects. [Dooyeweerdian view] [ab]
- Objective Value Theory: Labour is the generator or origin of value. [m113]
- Subjective Value Theory: Labour only has value insofar as it generates goods that consumers value. [m115]
- Dooyeweerd: Both true. Objective: Labour is itself potentially Good insofar as it is functioning in various aspects, especially the formative and ecnomic. Subjective: Labour produces objects, and consumers find those objects good according to their own functioning in various aspects (e.g. the aesthetic). [ab]
- Who: m1[ab]
- Aspects: *fv *sc *ec
- Links to: Human functioning
Issue: Human dignity
- More: The dignity of each human being, and humanity as a whole.
- Who:
- Aspects: *ft
- Links to: Imago Dei, Human rights
Issue: Human frailties
- More: Human frailties mean that markets don't work according to economic theories, and that predictability is poor.
- Dooyeweerd: Kinds of frailty: (a) That our functioning in any aspect is always limited because no aspect is absolute. (b) Human sin, in which we go against the laws of aspects and thus against the Good they can bring. [ab] ***
- Who: m128
- Aspects: *an *fv *ec *et
- Links to: Human sin, Non-absoluteness of aspects, Complexity, Unpredictability
Issue: Complexity
Issue: The Economy
- More: What does it mean to be economy? [z104]
- Financial infrastructure; infrastructure that enables, constrains and guides the economic aspect of our lives insofar as it involves money.
- Note: Some human functioning, including economic functioning in its widest sense of frugality or efficiency, is not financial, not involving money.
- "the economy has been brought in as the easiest thing to measure" [z214]
- Who: z104, m454
- Aspects: *sc *ec
- Links to: Economic aspect, Multi-aspectual Economy, Infrastructure, Other types of Economy, Measuring, Economic Theories
Issue: Economic growth
- More: Growing amount of money flowing around.
- "growth is determined by our values." [m477]
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *kn *bi *ec
- Links to: Ecnoomic growth as a solution
Issue: Other types of Economy
- More: Kinds of economy other then economic growth
- Donut Economics, Circular Economy, Regenerative Economics, green economy, triple-line model, etc. and various indicators [z121]
- Why are we not using these? Why do we stick with GDP? [z121]
- Maybe OK for Scandinavia, "but, is it appropriate for developing countries (e.g. Nigeria)? Or even major world-leading countries like the USA?" [z122]
- Also: "But is that (donut economy etc.) the wrong direction? Donut economy etc. tries to expand the realm of pricing (quantitative value) to factors not previously included, and rely on market mechanisms to bring good in those aspects. But can it really do so? Might it not be better to employ the jural aspect i.e. legislation and control?" [z123] There is Non-monetary value.
- Dooyeweerd: Dooyeweerd would see these as recognising different aspects of the real-world economy that GDP fails to recognise. Multi-aspectual economy would be mix of measurable and non-measurable.
- Who: z121
- Aspects: *an *ec *ft
- Links to: Various indicators, The economy, Ethical organisation
Issue: Resource, and its diverse kinds
- More: Kinds of resource
- e.g. Raw materials, components, shelf-space, office-space, thinking space, skills, money, clock time, health, human patience, brevity of life (career), etc.
- e.g. "Keeping patients longer. ... How the saved time to be used?" [z246]
- Resources tend to get quantified, monetized.
- Who: ab
- Aspects: Of resource types: *sp *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg ; Of treating things as resource: *qv *lg *ec
- Links to: Economic aspect Targets
Issue: Gifts
- More:
- "To many economists, all this gift-giving is fraught with inefficiencies. " [m168] [m169] [m170]
- Xn, Dooyeweerd: Gift-giving is much more important than usually recognised
- Who: m169
- Aspects: *ec *et
- Links to: Ethical aspect
Issue:
- More: "Companies knowingly on the path ininconsistent with netzero are like tek companies who say they pay all taxes due while employing complex offshore tax shelters to avoid any taxes due at all." [m415]
- Who:
- Aspects: *ec *jr
- Links to: Juridical aspect
Issue: Borrowing and debt
Issue: Infrastructure. c.f. "structures of society"
- More: The system within which we function, which enables certain kinds of functioning and constrains others. e.g. 'the economy'. proper role of infrastructure and what it makes possible and what it does not. [ab11]
- In our discussion, the Economy is the main infrastructure of concern, but there are others.
- "infrastructure to connect demand from companies with netzero goals with supply of offsets from around the world" [m458]
- Kinds of infrastructure: 'society', 'the Economy', aesthetic fashion, legal and political infrastructure, pervading attitudes, and prevailing beliefs / assumptions. [ab]
- Each of those is defined, made meaningful by a different aspect (respectively social, economic, aesthetic, juridical, ethical, pistic) [ab]
- Note: Much human functioning occurs without the need for infrastructure, especially in earlier aspects, but also in these aspects. For example, courageous people might go against prevailing beliefs / assumptions. The latter is especially important for innovation. [ab]
- There is even economic functioning outwith The Economy - such as home storage, reuse, repair, restoration, recycling, etc. This must also be considered. [ab]
- Who: m457
- Aspects: *fv *sc *ec *ae
- Links to: Human functioning, The Economy, Individual-infrastructure relationship, Institutions related to the Economy
Issue: Individuals and structures / infrastructures
- More: The relationship / mutual interaction between individual functioning (agency) and infrastructure / structure ("structuration"). Structure enables, guides and constrains individual agency and functioning, while individual agency changes (infra)structure. A cycle. (c.f. Giddens)
- "The question is whether the expansion of the market, an expansion that Friedman helped unleash, is changing the underlying social contract on which it has been based." [m142]
- "the more they do, they will change the engineering, and the more this happens, this doesn't just make the weather but changes the climate" [m455]
- Who: ab
- Aspects: *ps *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae
- Links to: Human functioning, Infrastructure
Issue: Time
- More: The time element in the economy. Things happen. What is time? Also, when things happen.
- Value is dynamic [m107] [j203]
- "pull forward change that would happen anyway" [m347]
- Dooyeweerd: Time has many aspects, all different: e.g. clock (physical) time, psychical time, historical time.
- Who: j203
- Aspects: *kn *fv
- Links to: Kairos: Right time, Value, dynamic, Time as resource
Issue: The Future
- More:
- Future generations, and our responsibility thereto [m410] [m471]
- Valuing the future [m412]
- Borrowing from (robbing?) the future. [===] "the moral hazard of 'there is a free lunch'" [q301]
- Predicting the future (see also Predictability)
- "In this way private finance can bend the arc of history towards climate justice" [m472].
- Who: j203
- Aspects: *qv *kn *an *fv *jr *ft
- Links to: Time, Climate and environmental responsibility
Issue: Human rights and justice
- More: Justice for people, especially the poor, the marginalised, the disenfranchised, especially in developing countries.
- Focusing on the economy at the expense of human rights, justice, etc.
- Some focus on environment and ignore human rights and welfare. [c203]
- Dooyeweerd: Those problems sound like focusing on one single aspect and ignoring others, e.g. economic, biotic.
- Who: c203
- Aspects: *sc *ec *ae *jr *ft
- Links to: Human dignity, Poverty, Justice, Juridical aspect
Issue: Inequalities
Issue: Social care
- More: Care of others as one of society's values.
- "how we build an economy that values care?" [q302]
- "tough issues around care have been dodged over last 10 ys. we have a window here [with Covid-19]: to address sustainability and care." [m343]
- Who: q302
- Aspects: *sc *et *ft
- Links to: Ethical aspect, Values
Problem: Public services
- More: Provided by government or local authorities with resources paid for eventually from taxes
- "Structural inequalities revealed by Covid-19 are driving demand for sevices. appetite for public service reform." [q305]
- Who: q305
- Aspects: *fv *sc *jr *et
- Links to: Taxes, Social care, Inequalities
Issue: Attitude taken by people, organisations and governments
- More: Attitude pervades society and affects the economy
- "humble and not draw attention" [z243]
- Self-serving or serving others? "Not 'what can I fontrol' but 'what can I enrich?'" [z260]
- Does this explain why businesses that began for ethical reasons lasted longer? Longevity [ab07]
- Who: z243
- Aspects: *lg *et
- Links to: Christian values, Ethical aspect
Issue: Competition
- More: Either between firms, or as attitude
- Perfect competition, an assumption of Subjective Value Theory. [m123]
- Who: m123
- Aspects: *ft
- Links to: Economic Theories, Attitude
Issue: Tradeoffs
- More: When two things are both transduces to quantitative measurements and it is assumed that increasing one decreases the other, so we have to decide how much we want of each. This is partly how market reductionism works, and the flattening of values.
- "As we shall see, it [market based on subjective value] encourages tradeoffs of growth today and crisis tomorrow, tradeoffs of health and economics, tradeoffs of planet and profit." [m159]
- Who: m159
- Aspects: *qv *fv *ec
- Links to: Flattening of Value, Reduction (to quantitative / economic aspect), Price
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
----
Top of page,
Contents,
Key ----
On Value and Values
Issue: Value
- More: "Value is the regard that something is held to deserve, its importance, its worth, its usefulness. Value isn't necessarily constant, but rather specific to time and situation." [m105]
- Value is dynamic [m107] [j203]
- Value of money depends on how rich we already are. [m167]
- Frankina: philosophy of value [z226]
- Dooyeweerd: Value (basic) as a kind of Good that an aspect makes possible, which, together, contributes to the flourishing of all Creation (Shalom). [z227]
(a)
- Who: m105, rg, oa, j201
- Aspects: *qv *ec
- Links to: Good, Prosperity, Beyond Measuring, Price, Non-monetary value
Issue: What do we value?
- More: How many kinds of values are there?
- Who: j201,z109
- Aspects: *qv *ec *et *ft
- Links to: Aspects
Issue: Non-monetary value
- More:
- "monetising life trivialises decisions" [m322]
- "pricing of goods, services and civic virtues that have been traditionally outside the market" [m134]
- "efforts to calculate them can be corrosive." [m166]
- "In our economics we should be concerned" [z203]
- "but we don't know what money is optimizing and measuring" [z217]
- "what else should we pursue?" [z221]
- Who: mc5, mc13, m404
- Aspects: *qv *an *ft
- Links to: Economic growth, Economic growth as a solution, Beyond measuring
Issue: We value the wrong things.
- More:
- "Why water, essential, is free; yet diamonds, essentially [frivolous] are expensive. Why Amazon company is huge $m while Amazon rainforest missing from all ledgers?" "My kingdom for horse". [m102]
- Who: [m102]
- Aspects: *sc *ec *jr *ft
- Links to: Value, Wrong values, Human sin
Issue: Economic value
- More: Some good that is meaningful to someone or something, but seen from an economic perspective.
- "Two broad schools of thought about what determines economic value, objective and subjective." [m106]
- Who: m106
- Aspects: *qv *fv *ec *ft
- Links to: Value, Economic theories
Issue: Formation of value
- More: How does value come about (remembering that it is dynamic)
- ""Smith believed that we form our norms and values by wishing to be loved and lovely ..." [m112]
- "[Adam Smith:} markets determine the the distribution of value, which he believed, as did Ricardo and Marx after him, is fundamentally derived from labour" [m113] - Objective Value Theory
- "People value goods that satisfy specific wants. ... Value is in the eye of the beholder, not in the sweat of the labourer." [m115] - Subjective Value Theory
- [ab] A suggestion to integrate subjective and objective value theory: From Dooyeweerd, who integrates subjective and objective under meaningfulness-and-law: Value is ultimately grounded in the potential for Good that each aspect (sphere of meaningfulness and las) offers. Then (a) Objective value is the meaningfulness and inherent Good in the (human) functioning in these aspects. (b) Subjective value is the attributing of meaning / value of some kind made possible by various aspects. - or something like that! *****
- Who: m115
- Aspects: *qv *fv *sc *ec
- Links to: Value, Labour, Consumption
Issue: Shareholder ("owner") value
- More: Friedman's classic belief that the sole duty of the firm is to increase shareholder/owner value
- Friedman "includes the following caveat. 'The corporate executive's responsibility is to make as much money as possible WHILE CONFORMING TO the basic rules of SOCIETY both those embedded in law AND IN ETHICAL CUSTOM.'" [m139]
- Who: m139, m140
- Aspects: *qv *sc *ec *ft
- Links to: Multi-aspectual functioning, Social capital
- Issue: Link between Value and Values
- More: "Important to understand the relationship between value and values." [m313]
- Who: m103, j201, m313
- Aspects: *an *ec *et *ft
- Links to: Value, Values, Aspects
Issue: Values
- More: "Values represent principles or standards of behaviour, or judgements of what's important in life, such as fairness, responsibility, sustainability, solidarity, dynamism, resilience and humility." [m104]
- A person's or a group's holding some good to be important, especially as a guide to living. e.g. "market values": what Good is valued by the market.
- Perspectives beliefs link with values.
- "integrity must come from within and grounded in values" [m240]
- "hierarcy of values with net zero at its apex" [m430]
- "Addressing climate change is about delivering what society values." [m447]
- "increased focus on sustainably is already shifting market values" [m454]
- "how we build an econ that values care?" [q302]
- "growth is determined by our values." [m477]
- "this [covid] crisis: an opportunity to reset. What do we value?" [m346].
- "the media promotes, spreads views, values, etc." [ab08]
- "Important: exchange between people who hold different values" [z228][z229][z230].
- Dooyeweerd: people's values as the aspectual Good that they deem important [z227]
- Who: m104
- Aspects: *et *ft
- Links to: Value, Good, Economic growth, Rethinking, Dooyeweerd's aspects for kinds of value, The media, Articulating values, Pistic aspect, what's important
Issue: Articulating values, especially when different
- More: How to even articulate differences in values [z229]. And go to some kind of shalom [z230].
- Who: z226
- Aspects: *lg *ae *et *ft
- Links to: Values, Shalom
Issue: Norms
- More: Linked to values
- Who:
- Aspects: *sc *jr *et *ft
- Links to: Values, Value
Issue: Perspectives on the economy
- More: How we see things; what is meaningful to us (and what is not meaningful). Our perspective on the economy links with our set of values.
- "[major problems] arise from the drift from moral to market sentiments." [m132]
- "his [Lomberg's] book is a classic economic approach which i reject." [m478]
- "the media promotes, spreads views, values, etc." [ab08]
- Moral and mindset problem [z204]
- Who:
- Aspects: *an *sc *ft
- Links to: Pistic aspect, perspectives, The Media
Issue: Wrong Values, Harmful beliefs and commitments
Issue: Corroding our values.
- More: "spread of market mechanisms can change and corrode society values" [m147]
- "Value equated by monetary value." [m148] Tom Wolff 'statussphere' built on money.
- Adam Smith: People form their values by wishing to be well-thought-of but value is increasingly determined by monetary value. [m148]
- 'Logic of market' increasingly applied to non-monetary things like healthcare and environmental protection. [m149] Market reaching into areas of life where it should not. [m150]
- "money crowds out civic norms." [m153]
- "efforts to calculate them can be corrosive." [m166]
- "Currency empowers that (selfishness)" [z220].
- Who: m146
- Aspects: *sc *ec *jr *et *ft
- Links to: Values, Markets, Mammon, Reductionism to single aspect, Non-monetary value, Wrong values
Issue: Price
- More: Monetized value, the quantity of a currency that society places on some good.
- "pricing of goods, services and civic virtues that have been traditionally outside the market" [m134]
- "anything not priced is [assumed to be] not valuable" [m160]
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *lg *ec
- Links to: Value, Tradeoffs, Flattening of value
Issue: What is the relationship between price and value?
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *lg *ec *ae
- Links to:
Issue: Currency
- More: "economic value pegged to us dollar" [j101]
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *lg *sc *ec
- Links to: Money
Issue: Scale - number or amount we are dealing with; micro to macro, local, national to global
- More: "$100k to redo a production line, but financiers deal in millions" [z212]
- Who: z212
- Aspects: *qv *sc *ec
- Links to: Climate change, Measuring
Issue: The Media
- More: "The role of the media in promoting and spreading certain views, values, etc." [ab08]
- Who: ab08
- Aspects: *lg *sc *et *ft
- Links to: Values, Lingual aspect, Pistic aspect
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
----
Top of page,
Contents,
Key ----
On Prosperity and Wealth
Issue: Prosperity and Wealth
- More:
- "Should we not have an attitude of abundance rather than of scarcity? How can we measure abundance?" [z127]
- What is the role of frugality? Is it a virtue even during prosperity, or is it only a defence against poverty?
- Xn: See Shalom
- Who:
- Aspects: *ec *ae *et
- Links to: Good, Good, Harmful, Useless, Value, Wealth, Poverty, Shalom
Issue: Wealth - What is it?
- More: What is wealth?
- How markets create wealth? [m101]
- Wealth generated by whatever markets do according to Subjective Value Theory [m116]
- [ab] To Dooyeweerd, wealth might be closely linked with shalom or flourishing, but with special meaningfulness in the economic aspect.
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *an *fv *sc *ec *ae *et
- Links to: Prosperity, Money, Value, Markets
Issue: Poverty, marginalisation, disenfranchisement
Issue: Developing countries
- More: "How will climate change affect Nigeria?" [q411]
- "G20 countries responsible for 80%, so responsibility to change" [q412]. "Western money and developing countries" [ab15]
- "Developing economies are already heavy with 3rd world debt, asking them to preserve trees, stop cutting down rainforest, etc is not going to help ..." [c108]
- Damage that wealthy nations have done in the past. [ab15] Reparations?
- Developing countries can now "refuse low-quality, difficult to recycle waste" [c207]
- "World Bank suggest that FDI benefits developing countries bringing in technical know-how, enhancing workforce skills, increasing productivity, generating business for local firms, creating better paying jobs" [c204]
- Xn: But which of those are truly beneficial?
- Dooyeweerd: Real prosperity, flourishing, shalom involves all aspects, including generosity, respect, biodiversity, etc. not just shifting knowhow or ignoring aspects. [ab]
- Who: q411
- Aspects: *sp *fv *sc *ec *jr
- Links to: Human rights, Fast fashion industry, Supply chains, Wealthy countries, Inequalities
Issue: Wealthy countries
- More:
- "G20 is responsible for 80% [greenhouse] gas emission" [c210]
- Have "a shared responsibility" with developing countries [c209]
- Who:
- Aspects: *sp *fv *sc *ec *jr
- Links to: Developing countries
Issue: Reparations by wealthy countries to developing countries for damage done in the past
- More: What reparations should we make?
- Is it as deep as repentance, however? Reparation is more concrete but looks back to the past; repentance is change of heart, and changes the future. True repentance wants to reparate.
- Who: ab
- Aspects: *fv *sc *ec *jr *et
- Links to: Developing countries, Repentance
Issue: Consumption
- More:
- "households had to borrow to increase consumption" [m209] See also Ethical aspect: greed
- "to the perceieved value of goods to the consumer" as the generator or origin of value in Subjective Value Theory [m114]
- "How should Christians view individual consumption (especially in relation to our emphasis on responsibility)?" [z117]
- Who:
- Aspects: *sc *ec *jr *et
- Links to:
Issue: Supply chains
- More:
- "We need to look at the whole supply chain process not in parts" especially where developing countries are involved. [c205]
- "not employ children in supply chain" [z267]
- Just-in-time supply chains leads to huge climate emissions? [ab]
- Who:
- Aspects: *ph *bi *fv *ec *jr
- Links to: Developing countries, Children, Juridical aspect, justice
Issue: Supply, Demand and Impact
- More: Impact (e.g. environmental) should be considered alongside supply and demand.
- "not just supply and demand [j213], but supply and demand and (environmental or other aspectual) impact [j214].
- Who: j213
- Aspects: *fv *ec *jr
- Links to: Impacts, Supply chains, Consumption
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
----
Top of page,
Contents,
Key ----
On Impacts of the Functioning of the Economy
Issue: Impact
- More: The result or consequence of human functioning, whether this be decisions, or anything else.
- "The ethical customs that Friedman assumes can change. Indeed, many of those necessary to support market functions are corroded when financial returns become disembodied from their impact on other stakeholders." [m144]
- Who: j221
- Aspects: *fv *ec *jr *et
- Links to: Human functioning, Externalities
Issue: Externalities
- More: Things that happen because of our human functioning which are usually not brought into the economic equations of that functioning.
- "When there are externalities, individual actions can drive social disasters like the climate crisis." [m127]
- "In deciding which sectors of the economy to open and close policy makers must weigh up externaltiies" [m328]
- Types of externalities: "There are classic economic externalities, such as when car production increases the demand for steel; there are also infection externalities, such as when the opening of one sector of the economy like hospitality increases the spread of the disease." - also environmental externalities
- "Instead of assuming that the price ... [is] value ... transferred into GDP assessment [j211], we [include] ... externalities (carbon tax, and other items)." [j212]
- "how do we expand our hearts, so that externalties come in" [z206]
- Who: j206, m328, z201
- Aspects: *an *fv *ec *ae *jr *ft
- Links to: Measuring value, GDP, Beyond measuring, Price, Good, Harmful, Useless, Aspects, Choosing sectors of the economy to shrink or support, Impact
Issue: The Tragedy of the Commons
- More: The economically rational person robs the commons for their own benefit, and all suffer.
- Who: m413
- Aspects: *an *sc *ec *jr *et
- Links to: Ethical Aspect, Responsiibility
Issue: Climate change and environmental responsibility
- More: We have responsibility to look after climate and environment
- transition to netzero carbon economy. [m226]
- Christian view: Mandate of humanity to shepherd and care for the rest of Creation. Imago Dei
- Who: m403,
- Aspects: *ph *bi *ec *ae *jr
- Links to: Responsibility, Climate change
Issue: Unpredictablity of impacts
Issue: Responsibility
- More: "importance of responsibility in the financial system. And in politicians, opinion-formers and all individuals" [ab04]
- "G20 countries responsible for 80%, so responsibility to change" [q412].
- "I agree that there is a responsibility" [m481].
- a shared environment [j104]
- "How to create accountability across time?" [z116]
- Who: ab04, z116
- Aspects: *sc *ec *jr
- Links to: Juridical Aspect, Climate and Environmental Responsibility, Imago Dei
Issue: Stewardship
----
Top of page,
Contents,
Key ----
On Institutions
Issue: Governments
- More: proper role of governments: policy
- Businesses want governments to set ambitious goals and policies for climate and environmental responsibility. [ab24] c.f.
- Government as solution to crisis ? [m459]
- BUT "How governments see themselves (their pistic functioning of identify, vision, etc)" [ab09]
- "If they see themselves in competition w.r.t. e.g. aviation, then those sectors become 'too important to allow to fail'." So they don't set those righteous goals. [ab09]
- Governments tend to see the economy in terms of GDP. [ab10]
- Green window dressing [q405]
- Is the solution Citizens' assemblies ? [q407]
- "How can presidents walk out of Kyoto, Paris agreements?!" [z271]
- Who:
- Aspects: *sp *fv *sc *ec *jr *ft
- Links to: Juridical aspect
Issue: Regulation.
- More:
- myth that markets regulate themselves spontaneously. [m212]
- Light touch regulation [m215]
- Fundamental limitations of regulation and legislation.
- Who:
- Aspects: *fv *ec *jr *ft
- Links to: Markets, Juridical aspect, Legislation
Issue: Legislation and compliance therewith
- More: "employ the jural aspect i.e. legislation and control?" (instead of measuring) [z123]
- "if we can find a key which is enforcement: make sure people following rules and regulations. [z268]
- But "Even with law and enforcement it does not make people good." [z269] [z272]
- Dooyeweerd: Legislation and enforcement is of the juridical aspect, but goodness and attitude of wanting to follow the regulations is of the ethical aspect, and cannot be reduced to juridical. [ab]
- Who: z123
- Aspects: *fv *jr *et
- Links to: Obedience, Corporate Social Responsibility,
Issue: International regulations
- More:
- "WTO should be in charge, and say who can do what. There is no policing." [z270]
- "hope. The new WTO director, Nigerian, not from the West." [z273]
- "Would be admirable if there was a UN that really worked." [z274] "will never have the righteous qualities because corrupt. Is there an answer?" [z275]
- Who: z270
- Aspects: *sp *ec *jr
- Links to: Legislation
Issue: Taxes
Issue: Markets
- More: "What is the proper role of markets?" [z112]
- How markets create wealth; Adam Smith [m101]
- "markets don't exist in a vacuum." [m136] "the social foundations of the market" [m133]
- "Markets are a social construct ... Values of trust, integrity and fairness are critical to effective market functioning" [137]
- "Or if markets are incomplete small shocks can lead to massive damage." [m126]
- "Could the emphasis on the individual over the community, or on our selfish traits over our altruisic ones, imperil both the market's effectiveness in determining value and ultimately society's values?" [m142]
- What is the proper link(s) between markets and legislation, etc.? [z112]
- How does individual choice relate to social aspects of the market? [z115]
- Market reaching into areas of life where it should not. [m150]
- Dooyeweerd (actually Kuyper): Market as one sovereign sphere of society, which should not encroach on the sovereignty of other spheres. [ab]
- Who: m101, z112
- Aspects: *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to: Wealth, Multi-aspectual functioning, The market seen as solution
Issue: Markets - true and false ideas
- More: Three false beliefs about markets:
- Lie 1: that they regulate themselves spontaneously [m212]
- Lie 2: that market is always right [m213]
- Lie 3: that markets are moral [m219]
- More: But markets can be of a different type [
- "the market is not /the/ answer to everything but it can play a critical role in solving many of humanity's greatest challenges." [m466]
- "A market in the transition to netzero is now being built ..." [m469]
- Who:
- Aspects: *sc *ec *jr *ft
- Links to: Markets
Issue: Repugnant markets
- More: Markets that should not be functioning.
- Who: z233
- Aspects: *ec *jr
- Links to: Human sin, Markets
Issue: Role of companies and business
Issue: Business success
Issue: Longevity
- More: How long a company or other body survives with more-or-less its original meaning and raison detre.
- "Hypothesis that companies that began at start with an ethical motivation rather than just self-centred money-making tend to be those that lasted 100 yaers." [ab07]
- Who: ab07
- Aspects: *qv *kn *fv *sc *ec *et
- Links to: Companies, Ethical aspect, Attitude, Ethical organisations
Issue: Social capital
- More:
- "beliefs are part of the inherited social capital which provides the social framework for free markets" [m140]
- "in moving from a market economy to a market society, are we consuming the social capital necessary to create economic and human capital?" [m143]
- Who: m220,
- Aspects: *sc *ec *et *ft
- Links to: Ethical aspect, Social aspect, Non-monetary value, Beyond measuring
Issue: Free markets
- More:
- "beliefs are part of the inherited social capital which provides the social framework for free markets" [m140]
- Hypocrisy might harm the foundations of the free market [m145]
- Who:
- Aspects: *fv *ec *jr *ft
- Links to:
Issue: Banks
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *sc *ec
- Links to:
Issue: Bank soundness
Issue: Insurance
- More:
- Shortcomings of that approach seen when approaching death.
- Intrinsic v replacement value e.g. pilots
- Value not of death but of delaying death [m318].
- Who: m316
- Aspects: *ec *et *ft
- Links to: Measuring value, Non-monetary value
Issue: Ethical Trading Initiative
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
----
Top of page,
Contents,
Key ----
On Theorizing Economics
Issue: Real markets, economies versus theory about them
- More: Beware of economic theory, of textbooks, of the assumption of economic rationality
- "but markets are only clear in textbooks" [m216]
- Impact of societal situation when a theory is developed [m108]
- "In many cases, when these assumptions don't hold they drive a wedge between private and social value." [m124]
- Who:
- Aspects: *an *lg *ec *ae *jr *ft
- Links to: Complexity, Pistic aspect: assumptions, Economic Theories
Issue: Economic Theories
- More: List of economic theories
- Adam Smith: Markets creating wealth. Free markets; [m101] [m107] [m
- Adam Smith: Theory of Moral Sentiments [m110]. generosity is not a finite resource to be conserved but a value that grows with use. [m306]
- Hobbes: fundamental duty of the state is to protect citizens from violence, and duty of citizen is to obey [m302]
- Petty: relationship between money supply, national wealth, population, etc. [m315]
- Schelling: value of delaying death [m317]
- Objective Value Theory; Marx; value derives from how produced [m107] (Objectivists: Aristotle, Adam Smith, David Ricardo, Karl Marx)
- Subjective Value Theory (Neo-classicists). Assumptions: Perfect competition, Commodity goods, Complete markets, Rational consumers and financiers. [m123] It flattens value. [m158] [m171] Encourageds tradeoffs [m159]
- Milton Friedman [m138] ff. "to increase shareholder value" See his important caveat re. society [m139]
- Jeremy Bentham. Utilitarianism. "that property in any object whereby it tends to produce benefit, advantage, pleasure, good or happiness, or to prevent the happening of mischief, pain, evil or unhappiness to the party whose interest is concsidered." [m163]
- JS Mill "Mill described what Bentham's calculations missed, including ... [non-monetary value of many aspects]" [m164] [
- Dooyeweerd's aspects - value found in the Good each aspect makes possible, and economics to do with frugality in managing resources. [ab]
- Who: various
- Aspects: *an *ec *ft
- Links to: See links above.
Issue: Rational economic actor
- More: The assumption of the rational economic actor is common in economic theory, but lets us down in major ways. [m124]
- "Rational consumers and financiers": an assumption of Subjective Value Theory. [m123]
- "In many cases, when these assumptions don't hold they drive a wedge between private and social value." [m124]
- Dooyeweerd: Rationality (in the sense meant here) is meaningful and a law for only the analytical aspect (norm of non-contradition), and hence is only one among many other qualities and norms, rather than something that can be absolutely assumed. Concept of Rational economic actor often refers to something very limited in human functioning, and even dysfunctional: self-serving (dysfunction in ethical aspect). That idea needs developing. [ab] ***
- Who: m123
- Aspects: *an *fv *ec *ft
- Links to: Economic Theories, Real versus theory
Issue: Ethical theories
- More: Various ethical theories
- Consequentialist ethics, utilitarianism. OK but limited: "cannot measure across all people". [z215]
- Who: z213
- Aspects: *an *fv *et
- Links to: Economic theories
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
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Top of page,
Contents,
Key ----
On Measurements or Reports of Value
Issue: Measuring Value
- More: Measuring value; what its proper role is.
- "measurement is one tool to help us come to a conclusion" [z256]
- When is it useful/good to measure, and when not? [z240]
(One alternative to measuring might be the legislation and control [z123]; see Obedience). Another is Ethicality.
- Re proper role of measuring:
- "what gets measured gets managed" [m440]
- Encourages clarity of decns. BUT is the clarity justified? [m319]
- Measuring e.g. time off helps determine pay. [z239].
- "how to put a value on numbers" [z242]
- "If we don't measure, then surely the saddest face on the poster is the one that gets the investment." [q306] But those are suited to specific decisions, not society-wide [m350] It doesn't work at those levels [m351]. "Not particularly impressed by the methodology of NICE." [m353]
- Re problems in measuring:
- "Tools can become idols [z257]
- "The problem comes if you add them up" [z250]
- "the economy has been brought in as the easiest thing to measure. Easiest way to judge ... but cannot measure across all people" [z214][z215][z218]
- "Trying to tie [j205] externalities [j206] to the central valuation ... is an area to possibly investigate." [RESEARCH]
- We don't measure e.g. when the health sector produces a treatment that avoids the need to take time off [z239]
- life is a non positional good [m318]
- Cost-benefit analysis (CBA); Values of statistical life or Adjusted Life Year [m314], [312], m356] [c108]
- "unequal impact of pandemic ... cannot be answered by CBA." [m323] "hidden inequities"
- "we still measure in terms of costs" [z236] and undervalue e.g. personal caregivers. [z237]
- "could assign weights of importance to various issues, ... but that's not good." [z253]
- Who: j202, j220
- Aspects: *qv *ec
- Links to: Value, Beyond Measuring, Impact, Insurance, Externalities
Issue: Measuring tools
- More: Conceptual tools with which to measure
- "tools can be elevate to idols." [z257]
- "if we set up a target, people find ways to play to targets." [258]
- Whether people do depends on human heart. [z259]
- Who: z257
- Aspects: *qv *an *ft
- Links to: Measuring
Issue: Indicators
- More: The proper role of indicators, mainly quantitative.
- "ideal to use perhaps an indicator that captures the wellbeing" [c102]
- GPI (Genuine Progress Index/Indicator) [c102]
- Better Life Index, Human Development Index, Wellbeing Indices [z121]
- Gross (National) Efficiency Index [j220]
- What can be measured and what cannot? [z126]
- Happiness Indices [z252]
- Dooyeweerd: Aspectual Efficiency Index [j209] [or Aspectual Frugality index? - ab] See Multi-aspectual measures
- Who: ca, j208
- Aspects: *qv *lg *ec
- Links to: Measuring Value, Beyond Measuring, Non-monetary value
Issue: Beyond Measuring
- More: Maybe we should go beyond measuring or trying to have indicators
- "The Dasgupta review is part of this trend. 'Lets bring as much as we can into this currency'." [z222]
- But "It does not prevent the last turtle going extinct" [z223].
- Why? "Because of values" [z224] - different kinds of value. Biodiversity is different from efficiency. Maybe diversity itself is a value." [z226]
- "Life insurance is not the actual value of the person" [z234]
- "UK National Children's Society brings out report: children in UK least happy. Not measuring money." [x252]
- Alternatives to measuring-and-planning, especially with Non-monetary value: Legislation and control [z123], Ethicality and CSR [z241]
- Who: rg, j223, z123, z206, z241
- Aspects: *qv *an *ec *jr
- Links to: Non-monetary value, Measuring, Aspects, Legislation, Ethicality
Issue: Money
- More: The proper role of money.
- "To what extent do we need money (GDP)?" [z125]
- "we need it in order to do the necessary things." [z125]
- "money is an amazingly transparent measure (can use it to optimize)" [z216]
- "We set up money as negotiating different values." [z232]
- "but we don't know what it's optimizing and measuring" [z217]
- How does money measure value, and which kinds of value? What about non-monetary good functioning, especially as occurred during Covid-19)?" [z125]
- "money crowds out civic norms." [m153] Money and market-orientation suppresses and corrodes "civic virtues". See [m152] [m154] [m155] [m156] See Ethical aspect where these are mentioned.
- "Currency empowers that (selfishness)" [z220].
- "what else should we pursue?" [z221]
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *lg *ec
- Links to: Wealth, Mammon, Measuring value, Non-monetary value, Currency, Monetisaation
Issue: GDP and its deficiencies
- More:
- "We need a world where we're no longer solely guided by measures like GDP, that were devised a century ago when the earth seemed immortal and the social norms of the market felt immutable." [m468]
- GDP as bad measure and even worse as a goal (as governments make it). [ab10]
- Other types of the Economy have been put forward. Why are we not using these? Why do we stick with GDP? [z121]
- "Instead of assuming that the price ... incorporates ... economic value ... transferred into GDP, we nudge ..." [j211]
- A defence of GDP in some form: However, "GDP is not bad as it shows the cycle of how labour contributes to the economy and through taxes improve social welfare." [c101] "GDP was always an important indicator to come out of chaos." [c103] e.g. Italy did not have enough medical kit to face pandemic [c106]
- "countries with a high GDP per capita have better life index" [c104]
- BUT is it the other way round: that countries with better life index generate higher GDP because they consume more? So is GDP actually a measure of the damage that high consumption does? [ab]
- Some believe: "when an economy grows to a "certain size" the economy is able to then develop environment friendly energy ... even a country such as US has not grown to this "certain size" which is worrying." [c105]
- Xn: With attitude "What can I enrich?" rather than Control: GDP enrichment? [z261]
- Dooyeweerd: Fundamental problem of GDP is that it takes account of only economic and quantitative aspects, and ignores the rest. Other types take other aspects into account. But what we really need is a Multi-aspectual Economy
- Who: m468
- Aspects: *qv *kn *fv *ec *ae *jr
- Links to: Measuring value, Governments, Other types of Economy, Multi-aspectual economy
Issue: Period over which things are measured
Issue: Multi-aspectual measuring
- More: Measuring and assessing things using Dooyeweerd's aspects "We could look at the aspects to guide what those other impacting aspects or units that should be measured." [j214]
- "measure the environmental impact or juridical impact or cultural impact of aesthetic impact" [j221]
- Some things, meaningful in some aspects, it is not appropriate to measure quantitatively. [z1===]
- Who: j214, j221
- Aspects: *qv *an *ae
- Links to: Indicators, Multi-aspectual functioning and good, Non-monetary value, Beyond measuring, Integrated Reporting
Issue: International Integrated Reporting Network
- More: IIRC set up to foster integrated reporting.
- Covers 6 pillars: Financial, manufactured, human, social & relationship, intellectual, natural
- This seems like several aspects [does it omit aesthetic and onwards, or are they compressed into "human"? ab]
- Who: z245,
- Aspects: *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec
- Links to: IIRC website, Multi-aspectual measuring
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
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Top of page,
Contents,
Key ----
TOPICS ABOUT DOOYEWEERD'S PHILOSOPHY
Concerning Aspects As Such
Issue: Aspects
- More: Ways in which reality can be meaningful and good. Spheres of meaningfulness and law. e.g. economic, social, ethical, jural, faith, biotic, physical, lingual aspects. Each aspect has its own distinct meaning-kernel. "Understanding aspects may guide the field and practice and enable better understanding and evaluation." [ab05]
- JS Mill argued for value of many aspectual qualities: bio, psy, fmv, soc, aes, pis. [m164]
- Who: ab05
- Aspects: *qv *ae *et *ft
- Links to: Passim above. Dooyeweerd's philosophy, Economic Theories, JS Mill
Issue: Inter-aspect dependency
- More: Inter-aspect dependency, e.g. of economic on social (retrocipation)
- "markets don't exist in a vacuum" [m136]
- "the social foundations of the market" [m133]
- "Markets are a social construct" [m137]
- "Values of trust, integrity and fairness are critical to effective market functioning" [m137]
- Who: j210
- Aspects: *fv *ae
- Links to: Exchange, Robinson Crusoe
Issue: Multi-aspectual functioning.
- More: All things in tempiral reality exhibit all aspects and can function in all aspects. So ignoring any aspect can be dangerous. It is the multi-aspectual nature of things that makes them complex in the highest degree, because no aspect can be reduced to others.
- Examples of multi-aspectual functioning in decision-making are given in [m129]: supporting past, memory, believing (wrongly), impatient, attributing value.
- "The alternative is to have many assessments of the costs and benefits of new policies that infer prices because there isn't a market." [m161]
- Who: ab37, m230
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to: Human functioning, Complexity, Single Aspect, Shalom / Flourishing, Single-aspect isolation, Flattening of value, Multi-aspectual ecoonomy, Multi-aspectual measuring
Issue: Multi-aspectual economy
- More: What should a multi-aspectual economy aim at? [z110]
- The real-world economy functions in multiple aspects. The Economy works well when it functions well in all aspects.
- This would include not only developed but 'undeveloped' economies. [z122]
- The problem with GDP is that it takes account only of the economic and quantitative aspects and ignores the rest. (single-aspect reductionism.
- Various other economic models take account of other aspects.
- What does it look like to not absolutize economics (the way our society tends to do) and yet gain the advantages of market thinking? [z128]
- But DOES ANY TAKE PROPER ACCOUNT OF ALL ASPECTS?
- "Generation Y and generation Z are more ethical and take more aspects into account in their purchasing etc. Firms are responding." [z129]
- What is the role of the faith aspect? [z111]
- "what is the role of the ethical aspect, which goes beyond the jural?" [z124]
- Instead of measuring, "Might it not be better to employ the jural aspect i.e. legislation and control?" [z123]
- What is the proper role of the quantitative aspect (on which GDP heavily relies)? [z123] And of the jural aspect among others?
- Is this A HUGE OPPORTUNITY for a Reformational and/or Christian CONTRIBUTION to the debate?
- Who: z110
- Aspects: *ec *ae
- Links to: Multi-aspectual functioning, The Economy
Issue: Every aspect is limited when taken by itself
- More: No aspect is self-dependent, nor one on which all other aspects depend nor from which they may be derived. Every aspect depends on all others. So when we miss an aspect out of our thinking, we miss out some important considerations, and when we consider only one aspect (reductionism), we miss out much.
- Who: ab38
- Aspects: *an *ae *jr
- Links to: Missing aspects, Single aspect reductionism, Aspectual coherence
Issue: Missing aspects
- More: Aspects missing from analyses, solutions, etc.
- Who: s101
- Aspects: *an *jr
- Links to:
Issue: Single aspect isolation. Also called Reductionism.
- More: Often a single aspect is isolated from the others, or elevated above them. When we focus on one aspect and ignore all others and their effects on its functioning. Especially the economic aspect. Often there is an idolatry of the single aspect, and we expect other aspects to serve it. When we do this, we jeopardise and limit the functioning even in this aspect, so e.g. markets do not function properly.
- "All three would have found profoundly alien the view widespread today, that economics is a neutral, technical discipline, to be pursued in isolation from such dynamics." [m109]
- "undercutting of the social foundations of the market" [m133]
- "pricing of goods, services and civic virtues that have been traditionally outside the market" [m134]
- "whom does finance serve: itself or society?" [m241]
- "flattening of values" [m409]
- "we are in the benginning of a mass extinction [m428] but all you can talk about is money [m429]" Greta Thunberg
- decisions based on human compassion r.t. economics [m304]
- "Why do we look at everything in isolation, or in parts?" [c206]
- "until when on this planet do we want to repeat this cycle of seeing one aspect as most important then see another aspect as most important at different time intervals and so on. It seems that is the case in almost everything in this world." [s103]
- Who: sj ,
- Aspects: *an *ec *ae *jr *ft
- Links to: idolatry, Multi-aspectual functioning, Ethical aspect, , Flattening of value
Issue: Aspectual coherence
- More: All Dooyeweerd's aspects cohere with each other.
- Each aspect depends on others
- Each aspect contains analogical echoes of all the others
- No aspect conflicts with others
- Who:
- Aspects: *ae *et
- Links to: No conflict between aspects, Inter-aspect dependency
Issue: No conflict between aspects
- More: Dooyeweerd believed there is no fundamental conflict between aspects, no necessary tradeoff between e.g. ethics and economics.
- "not climate versus econ but econ organised to climate." [m474]
- "We must resist the view that there is a tradeoff between economy and health" [m324] "there is no evidence of a economy-health tradeoff" [m351]
- Who:
- Aspects: *ec *ae *ft
- Links to: Good, Harmful, Useless parts of the economy, Tradeoffs
Issue: Shalom or Flourishing
- More: The working-well in all aspects in harmony. Undermined by dysfunction in any aspect. Closely linked with prosperity in its broadest sense, beyond economics. The Good of all aspects combined as are themes in a symphony.
- Dooyeweerd: Each aspect makes a different kind of Good possible, to contribute in harmony to the flourishing (shalom) of all Creation. [z227]
- Who:
- Aspects: *ae *et
- Links to: Prosperity, Wealth, Human functioning, Good
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
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Top of page,
Contents,
Key ----
Concerning Individual Aspects
Issue: The Economic Aspect
- More: In which frugality, resources, efficiency, etc. are meaningful. What is the meaning-kernel of the economic aspect? What does it mean to be economic? What is it that makes The Economy meaningful and important?
- Dooyeweerd suggests frugality; AB argues for frugality [ab06]. GB and JC like efficiency [j207]. From this arose the discussion over Robinson Crusoe. It seems there are two things to consider: frugality and social exchange.
- Much conventional economics seems to assume profits, or production and consumption.
- "prudence" [m244]
- "Communities cooperate to manage scarce resource" [m417].
- conservation of resources [m307]
- "How does the economic aspect of life relate to other aspects?" [z108]
- Who: gb, j207, ab06, z105
- Aspects: *ec
- Links to: About Economic Aspect, Aspects, Frugality, Efficiency, Value, Purpose of economy
Issue: Robinson Crusoe
- More: Did Robinson Crusoe (alone on an island) have an economy? [z107]
- Some said no, since economy involves social exchange.
- Some said yes, in that Crusoe could function economically.
- Suggests there are two distinct things to consider, in understanding economy.
- Who: z107
- Aspects: *an *sc *ec
- Links to: Economic aspect
Issue: Economic targets: About what should we be economic (prudent, efficient, frugal)?
- More: What are the things about which we are economic? What is it about which we try to be frugal or efficient?
- Who: j219
- Aspects: *an *ec *jr
- Links to: Resources
Issue: Dependency of economic aspect on other aspects
- More: Economic functioning depends functioning in other aspects, especially the social.
- "undercutting of the social foundations of the market" [m133]
- "Communities cooperate to manage scarce resource [m417]. cop26 is about bringing companies, countries together [m418] to manage our global ecosystem"
- Who:
- Aspects: *fv *sc *ec *ae
- Links to: Inter-aspect dependency
Issue: Frugality
- More: The norm of being sparing in our use or consumption of things treated as resources, treating them as though they were valuable and not wasting them. Self-control.
- What is the role of frugality? Is it a virtue even during prosperity, or is it only a defence against poverty?
- "Should we not have an attitude of abundance rather than of scarcity? How can we measure abundance?" [z127]
- "efficiency as the key instead of just financial frugality" [j215]
- [AB prefers frugality (but NOT just financial frugality!) over efficiency because, though they are similar and efficiency involves being frugal, efficiency is more tied to achieving some task, which is formative aspect, and hence not pure economic aspect. Frugality can occur without any task in mind. He sees frugality as a virtue, in line with the fruit of the Spirit of self-control.]
- Who: ab
- Aspects: *ec *et
- Links to: Economic aspect, Efficiency
Issue: Efficiency
- More: Achieving a task or purpose with least expenditure of various kinds of resource [Webster 1975].
- Who: gb, j207
- Aspects: *qv *fv *ec
- Links to:
Issue: Consumption
Issue: Exchange of goods or money
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
---- Top of page, Contents, Key ----
Issue: Pistic (faith) aspect
- More: Various forms:
- Commitment, e.g. to the programme of finishing the economic project of stability [m203] [m419]
- Motivation. "'incentives embodied in belief systems'." [m141]
- Certainty [m204]
- Forgetting lessons learned earlier [m207]
- Complacency e.g. after long period of stability [m210]
- Beliefs. e.g. faith in wisdom of crowds [m320] "beliefs are part of the inherited social capital which provides the social framework for free markets" [m140]
- Belief systems
- False beliefs [m211] [m227]
- Assumptions. Including false assumptions like perfect rationality [m216]
- Perspectives, especially held and assumed throughout society. "views once on fringe become mainstream" [m431]
- The lens through which we see/understand the world. [m449]
- Harmful perspectives. e.g. "moving from mkt economy to mkt society" [m339]
- Blind faith: in markets [m122]; in economic models etc. [m208] AB: Also e.g. in technology and Fourth Industrial Revolution?
- Stupidity [m205]
- Crises face us with these pistic dysfunctions (harmful perspectives, blind faith, idolatry, etc.). e.g. "this pandemic could reverse that, returning to private values [from market society]" [m340].
- Fundamentalism in economic belief [m217] See also Real Economics Versus Theory
- Idolatry [ab] - especially of the economic aspect. "The convention then: the market is always right." [m120] "When we grant an entity infinite wisdom we enter realm of faith." [m121]
- prevailing beliefs; "irresponsibility became the norm" [m234] - in that people together believed it was OK
- Questioning assumptions and prevailing beliefs. e.g. faith in wisdom of crowds questioned [m320]
- Courage
- Expectations e.g. of large bonuses [m236]
- Aspirations [ab]
- Hope. Or lack of hope: Pessimism in outlook "argue me out of my pessimism of Covid-19 and cc" [q307]
- Repentance [ab]
- 'Heart' - especially change of heart, repentance, new hope [ab]
- "Faith/Pistic Aspect aligns the retropancy of the previous aspects towards the desired end" [j218]
- Who: j218
- Aspects: *ft
- Links to: About Pistic Aspect, Rethink (what we value, believe, etc.), Values
Issue: Pistic/faith aspect of the economy
- More: How do the beliefs, commitments, assumptions that prevail in society (and in leaders) affect the economy?
- Who: z111
- Aspects: *ec *ft
- Links to: Pistic aspect, Economic aspect
Issue: Ethical aspect
- More: Attitude of self-giving love, goodness beyond juridical right and wrong. And its opposite, of selfishness, greed, etc.
- Humility [m228], e.g. about how much we know about the economy. See also Complexity. And its opposite, self-promotion.
- "emphasis on the individual over the community, or on our selfish traits over our altruisic ones" [m142]
- Social responsibility used hypocritically, to attract more employees rather than for good for others; this might even harm foundations of markets. [m145]
- "The group of children motivated only charitable and civic virtue raised the most" - more money than those who were paid to raise money. [m152]
- Civic virtue must not be treated as a scarce resource (seeing it from the economic aspect) to be conserved, but more like a muscle that becomes stronger with use. [m154], [m155], [m156]
- Social capital involves self-giving attitude [m220]
- Eagerness of people to help fellow citizens, especially as shown during pandemic [m305]
- Generosity and goodwill is not a resource to be conserved but a value that grows with use [m306]
- Moral issues transcend logic; e.g. all advocates of herd immunity advocated shielding elderly [m321]
- Functioning in ethical aspect enhances longevity of companies. [ab07]
- Greed [m209]
- Selfishness: "so they can get best economic return for their family" [z219] "Currency empowers that" [z220].
- Serving others. "whom does finance serve: itself or society" [m24]
- "For climate change we need to get beyond individual self-nterest to collective interest" [q307]
- Who: m206, q307
- Aspects: *et
- Links to: About Ethical Aspect, Social care, Values
Issue: Juridical aspect
- More: Responsibility, appropriateness, due, justice, and their opposites. Fairness is juridical with quantitative-analytical overtones.
- Regulation [m212, m215] Governments
- fraudulent, rogue traders [m221]
- transferring risks to those least able to bear them (households) [m225]
- "privatised profits and socialised the loss. unjust sharing of risk and reward" [m229]
- "too many participants felt irresponsible" [m233]
- "to whom is the financier responsible, herself or the sytem? [m242]
- "inequalities coming" [m311] "unequal impact of pandemic" [m323] "Covid affects the old more than the young" [m332]
- "During pandemic people prioritized solidarity fairness and responsibility" [m326] [m327]
- "It cannot be one rule for the powerful and another for the rest" [m333]
- "move from redbistribution to regeneration" [m337]
- "Companies knowingly on path inconsistent with netzero" [m415]
- Custodian attitude. "financiers to be seen as custodians of their institutions, passing them on better" [m243]
- inter-generational justice [m465].
- Promises. And false promises ("citizens react, because you have sold a false promise" [m352])
- Who:
- Aspects: *jr
- Links to: About Juridical Aspect, Justice, Inequalities, Good, Harmful, Useless
Issue: Aesthetic aspect
- More: Lively harmony (as in symphony: all playing together to generate something more than the sum of the parts) - and its opposite of fragmentation and isolation; Also enjoyment, delight, humour, etc. and their opposites such as fragmentation, isolation and the kind of conflict that makes lively harmony impossible.
- swings between pessimism, exuberance [m218]
- "political consensus has formed" [over need to reach net zero] [m473]
- Fun as aesthetic Good. But becomes negative when it trumps justice [ab] See Human sin
- Who:
- Aspects: *ae
- Links to: About Aesthetic Aspect, Sustainability, Holistic view, Elevating single aspects
Issue: Social aspect of economic functioning and the economy
- More: Relationships, agreements, solidarity, roles, institutions/organisations, cohorts, etc.
- culture etc. [m223]
- norms of the group e.g. of irresponsible traders [m234]
- "combine public with private standrads" [m235]
- "companies, countries together [m418] to manage our global ecosys"
- wisdom of crowds [m320]
- "During pandemic people prioritized solidarity fairness and responsibility" [m326]
- Traders were "clubby" [m222]
- Who:
- Aspects: *sc
- Links to: About Social Aspect, Inter-asspect relationships
Issue: Lingual aspect
- More: Communication, records, information, etc. and its place in the economy.
- "Codes little use if nobody reads them" [m239]
- Who:
- Aspects: *lg
- Links to: About Lingual Aspect
Issue: Formative aspect
- More: Formative power: achievement or failure; goals, plans, skills, technology, history
- skills of workers [m335]
- technological change [m335]
- "Whenever you have big technological shifts there are big impacts and they tend to exacerbate inequalities and you have to do massive retaining and retooling." [m349]
- e.g. "plan for failure" [m231]
- Who: m231
- Aspects: *fv
- Links to: About Formative Aspect
Issue: Analytical aspect
- More:
- "must think what might happen. counterfactuals hard to sell." [m232]
- Questioning assumptions, e.g. "faith in wisdom of crowds is questioned" [m320]
- "We are far from perfectly rational when making decisions." [m129]
- "flattening of values, by forcing decisions to be made according to utilitarian calculations." [m135]
- Who:
- Aspects: *an
- Links to: About Analytical Aspect
Issue: Psychical / Sensitive aspect
Issue: Biotic / Organic aspect
Issue: Physical aspect
- More: In which energy, forces, causality, etc. are meaningful
- Who:
- Aspects: *ph
- Links to: About Physical Aspect
Issue: Kinematic aspect
Issue: Spatial aspect
Issue: Quantitative aspect
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
----
Top of page,
Contents,
Key ----
TOPICS OF A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE
This contains some concepts that come with a Christian perspective that have been mentioned. They are ones that might contribute to disucssions on rethinking economics. They are by no means all that could be brought.
Issue: Contribution from Christian perspective? [z120]
- More: What contribution can a Christian perspective make to The Economy in the context of climate and environmental responsibility?
- God cares for the entire Creation, including the economy and the planet and the biospheres and human life
- Humanity has the mandate to shepherd the rest of Creation as God would.
- Human sin is the root cause of problems but is not fundamental
- Repentance is possible, with God forgiving
- Redemption is God's solving the problem, and in three dimensions
- Revivals are when redemption spreads widely in society, to change people's hearts, aspirations, etc.
- So there is hope but hope is founded in God, not just humanity.
- "Christian view needs to be tied to real human activity; how?" [z211]
- Christian values [z207].
- On the basis of all those, we might contribute the idea of a Multi-aspectual Economy, given that the aspects are ways the Creator made Creation meaningful and good.
- Who: z120
- Aspects: *fv *lg *ae *et *ft
- Links to: See above. Christian values
Issue: God cares for the entire Creation
- More: God loves the entire Creation, including the economy and the planet and the biospheres and human life.
- Who: ab
- Aspects: *ae *et *ft
- Links to: God as Creator, Redemption
Issue: Love, especially rooted in God
- More: Attitude of wanting to bless the other.
- God wants to bless the Creation, including humans [ab]
- God wants us to bless others [ab]
- "Not 'what can I fontrol' but 'what can I enrich?'" [z260]
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
Issue: God as the Creator
- More: Creation as dependent on the Divine.
- See God as 'Landlord' of the entire Creation. [ab36].
- But a Good landlord, who cares, who loves with self-giving love.
- Hence our responsibility.
- Who: ab36
- Aspects: *ae *jr *et
- Links to: Responsibility, Climate and environmental responsibility
Issue: Why is economy, and economic functioning possible?
- More: God's intention in creating the possibility of Economy. [ab16]
- Who: ab16
- Aspects: *ec *ft
- Links to: Economic aspect
Issue: Mandate for human beings / humanity
- More: Human beings and humanity have mandate to shepherd, care for and tend the rest of Creation, representing and working with God [Genesis 1,2].
- Shepherding, tending, caring for the rest of Creation: to develop and enrich it [ab]
- "Not 'what can I fontrol' but 'what can I enrich?'" [z260]
- The mandate to care for and develop implies loving responsibility for the rest of Creation.
- Today this especially means climate and environmental responsibility as central. [ab]
- We image God in so doing. so that Creation experiences something of God via human beings and humanity.
- But is this happening? No! Because of human sin. The answer is Jesus Christ.
- Who: ab
- Aspects: *jr *ft
- Links to: Climate and environmental responsibility, Imago Dei
Issue: Imago Dei: Human beings as "Image of God".
Issue: Shepherds of Creation
- More: Looking after with care and love, to develop, the rest of Creation.
- Contrast with stewarship. While stewardship is a juridico-economic relationship with property, shepherding is a relationship of self-giving love and care with something we are like, e.g. sheep, the Rest of Creation.
- Stewardship is meaningful in the juridical aspect, shepherding in the ethical aspect of self-giving love.
- Did not Jesus say that a good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep?
- Who: ab
- Aspects: *fv *et
- Links to: Consumers, Stewards or Shepherds, Stewardship
Issue: Christian values
- More: List of Christian values: how to map those to economy.
- Grace, Hope, Faith, Love, Justice, Joy, Service, Peace, ...
- How should these be active in The Economy and in economic functioning? [z207]
- Different kinds of value, e.g. justice, efficiency, biodiversity, diversity, [z226]
- Attitude [z243]
- See list on Christian Values (page) for list and example submitted by CA.
- Dooyeweerd: Might understand this via inter-aspect relationships.
- Who: CA, z207
- Aspects: *et *ft
- Links to: Christian Values (page), Values, Value
Issue: Responsibility to my neighbour, including distant unknown ones.
- More: Including when we emit greenhouse gases which damage others later and distant. [z212]
- Who: z212
- Aspects: *ph *bi *sc *jr *et
- Links to:
Issue: The good in people
- More: Human beings have some Good in them because they are made in the Image of God.
- "people rose to the occasion" [m338], [m342]
- "There is a tendency to demonize certain groups or types of people. But even they have some good." [ab19]
- Who: ab19
- Aspects: *sc *ae *et *ft
- Links to: Imago Dei
Issue: The human heart
- More: Deep core of each person, which affects all a person does, thinks, seeks, etc.
- Treating something as Divine or self-sufficient, as of ultimate importance, as giving meaning to all else
- aspirations, deepest commitments, beliefs; attitudes (self-centred or self-giving), etc.
- Idols
- Who: z250
- Aspects: *et *ft
- Links to: Human sin, Imago Dei, Attitudes, Pistic aspect, Ethical aspect, Idolatry
Issue: Human sin
- More: Human beings dysfunction in many aspects (e.g. lying (lingual), injustice (juridical), selfishness (ethical), idolatry and hidden agendas and refusal to believe (pistic)
- "Can the idea of sin help us? And of redemption?" [z119]
- The importance of taking human sin into account. Helps to explain why things go wrong. Helps avoid dead-ends like seeing goverments or private sector or anything else as solution. [ab17]
- "Some negative, not positive."
- e.g. is fun negative" [z244] "Not in itself; it's priorities." [z248] [c.f. Fun as aesthetic good]
- Repugnant markets [z233]
- Dooyeweerd: Sin as dysfunction, going against aspectual law.
- Who: ab17
- Aspects: *jr *et *ft
- Links to: Aspects, Self-reinforcing views, Redemption
Issue: Repentance
- More: Deep, unconditional admission that we were / I was wrong
- True repentance involves a change of heart (outlook, aspirations, beliefs, etc.), which changes things for the future.
- A functioning in the pistic aspect
- Opens the door to Redemption
- Reparations, though more concrete, look back to the past. True repentance wants to make reparations.
- Who: ab
- Aspects: *et *ft
- Links to: Reparations, Pistic aspect, Redemption
Issue: Redemption
- More: "God so loved THE WORLD that He sent his only-begotten son ..." John 3:16
- How is Redemption relevant to the economy, and to climate and environmental responsibility?
- Redemption / salvation is much more than just 'souls saved to populate heaven': Redemption or salvation has three dimensions:
- Dimension 1: becoming acceptable to God through Christ's atoning death ... and
- Dimension 2: ... and experiencing God here and now through the work of the Holy Spirit ... so that
- Dimension 3: ... so that human beings, with the same attitude as Christ had, bring salvation to the rest of Creation, and thus fulfil Humanity's mandate.
- "Can the idea of sin help us? And of redemption?" (contribution from Christian perspective) [z119] God's answer to sin in all its forms, individual and structural.
- Who: z119
- Aspects: *fv *jr *et *ft
- Links to: Human sin, Three dimensions of salvation, Repentance, Rethinking
Issue: Idolatry
- More: Treating something as Divine that is not divine; as of overriding importance, to which other things may be sacrificed [ab18]. Either a thing is given absolute power and is worshipped. Or an aspect is treated as self-dependent, so that it becomes the absolute ruler, the only aspect that is of importance, and to which all aspects are reduced. c.f. Single-aspect reductionism.
- e.g. "the flattening of values, by forcing decisions to be made according to utilitarian calculations." [m135]
- Idolatry is not an option; it is grossly harmful. See Goudzwaard Idols of Our Time.
- Who: ab18
- Aspects: *ft
- Links to: Pistic aspect dysfunction, Single aspect isolation
Issue: Revivals
- More: When many people turn to God and their hearts are changed. Redemption widespread.
- "This refers to the idea that spiritual revivals change people's hearts and because they are widespread they change the way society operates." [ab21]
- When many people have their mind (noos, outlook, perspective: Romans 12:2) transformed.
- Who: ab21
- Aspects: *fv *lg *sc *jr *ft
- Links to: Rethinking, Redemption
Issue: Hypocrisy
- More: Pretending to be good; virtue signalling; window-dressing
- "[Friedman said] a company might devote resources to provide amenities for its community, but only in the expectation of attracting employees, and that it could engage in such hypocritical window dressing by calling this social responsibility lest it (I quote) 'harm the foundations of the free market to admit that this fraud is all in the pursuit of profit alone." [m145]
- Outsourcing carbon emissions. [c202]
- Who:
- Aspects: *lg *jr *et
- Links to: Outsourcing CC emissions
Issue: "You cannot serve God and Mammon"
Issue: Obedience is better than planning.
- More: Obedience to God and his laws
- I believe aspectual laws are those with which God set up Creation, so that it would work well together. Each comes with fundamental laws that enable Creation to work well.
- "Might it not be better to employ the jural aspect i.e. legislation and control?" rather than measurement-oriented planning. [z123]
- Who: ab20
- Aspects: *fv *et
- Links to:
Issue: Role of non-Christians in God's plan.
- More: What is their role beyond being candidates for accepting Jesus? In what way can and should Christians work with non-Christians, and on what basis?
- I believe there is a role, in that all humans are made in the image of God to shepherd Creation (climate and environmental responsibility is in our very heart) and Christians have the answer to how it is effective. [ab]
- "will never have the righteous qualities because corrupt. Is there an answer?" [z275] "strong man wins, but it doesn't last." [z277]
- "Daniels vision: Jesus' kingdom is different and crumbles empire." [z276]
- Who: ab35
- Aspects: *et *ft
- Links to:
Issue: There is hope
Issue: Kairos: The Right Time for doing things
- More:
- ""Already too late to do enough about climate etc." [q406]
- "pull forward change that would happen anyway" [m347]
- "Now is the time when these decisions [on reducing climate change emissions] need to be taken - and they are not all spending decisions, they are regulatory decisions. [m345 kairos]
- Who:
- Aspects: *kn *ae *jr *ft
- Links to:
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
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PROPOSED SOLUTIONS
This section collects solutions that have been mentioned. They are by no means all the solutions and should be treated carefully.
Solutions Tried but Failed
Solution: engineering (and technological innovation) ("Technofix")
- More: Especially to tackle climate change: green technology.
- Who: m421
- But:
- Will need time, scale and massive investment [m424] However "to innovators these challenges give opportunity" [m426]
- To some calling for further technological breakthroughs is a counsel of despair [m425] [presumably because we are not certain to get them]
- Techno-fix: Can we really rely on technology solve the problems that technology created? [ab]
- Aspects: *fv *ft
- Links to:
Solution: Politics
- More: "momentum is building but even more is required" [m427]
- Who:
- But: "we are in the beginning of a mass extinction [m428] but all you can talk about is money [m429]" Greta Thunberg
- Aspects: *sc *jr *ft
- Links to:
Solution: Market as solution to climate change
- More: "market is not /the/ answer to everything but it can play a critical role in solving many of humanity's greatest challenges." [m466]
- "A market in the transition to netzero [m469] is now being built ..."
- Who: m466
- But:
- Aspects: *ph *sc *ec *ft
- Links to:
Solution: Economic growth as the solution
- More: Economic growth is seen by some as necessary in order to pay for environmental remedies. "Continued growth isn't a fairy tale; it's a necessity" [m467].
- Who: m467
- But:
- What about all those who argue for prosperity without growth? [ab]
- What about all the good human functioning that is outwith the economy, and hence is not included in economic growth? [ab]
- Aspects: *qv *ec *ft
- Links to: GDP, Values, Non monetary value
Solution: Trying to solve problems by fixing market imperfections.
- More: The belief that we can solve market problems solely by changing the way markets operate.
- Dooyeweerd: This is tantamount to elevating the economic aspect over all others and thinking it alone need to be taken into account. [ab]
- Who: m131
- But:
- "solution to market failures was to add more markets or reduce regulation further." [m122]
- "These tragedies won't be fixed by fixing market imperfections alone." [m131]
- adding markets make it worse. [m216]
- Aspects: *sc *ec *ft
- Links to: Single aspect elevated
Solution: New agendas
- More: We keep on setting agendas, and keep on failing
- "agendas for which the 'solution' was also huge financial investment and more innovation! ... This time round the agenda is Net Zero!" [s104]
- Who: s104
- But:
- Aspects: *fv *ft
- Links to: Green investments, Technology as solution
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Solutions in Which Some Hope
Solution: "can drive self-reinforcing cycles" of perspective
- More:
- Who: m434
- But: Can but not will. Human sin of various kinds is likely to prevent or corrupt this [ab]
- Aspects: *ft
- Links to: Human sin
Solution: Private sector
Solution: Government
- More:
- "Ultimately, private sector action needs effective public policies, including taxes, targeted investments in emerging sectors, and also needs new rules include new mandates for cleaner energy and energy efficiency." [m459]
- Who:
- But:
- "creeping of the state" (Jonathan Sumption) [m303]
- Aspects: *sc *jr *ft
- Links to:
Problem: (Global) citizens' assembly
- More: Citizens assemble and make decisions, rather than governments etc.
- Who: q407 (Gail Bradbrook)
- But:
- Won't work, though it will make some contribution [m476]
- Human sin will make it ineffective [ab]
- Aspects: *lg *sc *ft
- Links to: Governments, Human sin
Solution: Solutions proposed for developing countries?
- More:
- "2. african development bank" [m482].
- BUT what about e.g. asian version? [ch===]
- "3. there are ways of making sure global companies have to sort out cc, invest in these countries" [m483].
- BUT what will get them to do so?
- Who:
- But: See above.
- Aspects: *fv *sc *jr *ft
- Links to:
Solution: Fourth Industrial Revolution
- More: Various technologies like AI are seen as solution to many of the world's problems and a massive opportunity to expand The Economy
- Who: m348
- But: Has been critiqued. [ab]
- Is it in danger of idolising technology with blind faith therein? [ab]
- Aspects: *fv *ft
- Links to: Business opportunity, Pistic aspect, blind faith
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Solutions we Might Find or Try
Solution: Society's goal
- More: "if society sets a clear goal it will be profitable to be part of the solution and costly to be part of the problem." [m419]
- Who:
- But:
- Aspects: *sc *ft
- Links to: Pistic commitment
Solution: Opportunity for business
- More: Climate emergency "urgency can become opportunity" for bz and governments [m420] [ab23]
- Will be capital intensive. will be job-heavy when unemploy soaring.
- "transition to green economy could be the greatest commercial opportunity of all time," [m448]
- "Whenever you have big technological shifts there are big impacts and they tend to exacerbate inequalities and you have to do massive retaining and retooling." [m349]
- Who: m420, m448, ab23
- But:
- Aspects: *ph *fv *ec *ft
- Links to: Green Jobs, Fourth Industrial Revolution
Solution: Businesses to invest (after Covid-19 lockdown)
Solution: Green jobs
Solution: Investment in green technology etc.
- More: "investments and savings to shift" to netzero. [m435]
- "If we value the present much more than the future, we're unlikely to make the necessary investments today to reduce risk tomorrow." [m130]
- Who: m424
- But:
- MC pushes for "huge financial investment and pushes for more innovation. The immediate thought that struck me most was 'don't go down the same route in the same old way!' ... Juridical aspect was missing" [s101]
- "huge financial investment and more innovation! What did we end up with?" [s104]
- Aspects: *fv *ec *ft
- Links to: Engineering, technological innovation
Solution: Reporting
- More: Following the Wall St Crash 1929, standardised accounting practices / reporting came in [m439]. "every major company should disclose how cc affects its current bz and could affect its strategies" [m440] e.g. TCFD [m441]
- Who: m437
- But: What about those things that cannot be reported, e.g. tacit knowledge? [ab]
- Aspects: *lg *ec *ft
- Links to: Lingual aspect, Measuring
Solution: Leveraging people's concern and action
- More:
- "We need to leverage social coalitions that formed for climate action." [m460]
- Such coalitions supply motivation especially (pistic functioning) [ab]
- Who: m460
- But:
- Aspects: *fv *sc *ec *et *ft
- Links to: Pistic aspect: motivation
Solution: Carbon districts
- More: "Maybe set up "carbon districts" or growth districts for cleaner shared natural world?" [j105]
- Who: j105
- But:
- Aspects: *sp *ph *an *sc *ec
- Links to:
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Solutions we Should Try: Actions
Solution: Act soon
- More: "the sooner we act the lest costly it will be" [m411]
- Who:
- But:
- Aspects: *fv *ec *et
- Links to: Urgency
Solution: plan for failure.
Solution: "Risk Management must be transformed"
- More: "Past not good predictor of the future, because of tipping points" [m444]
- Who: m443
- But:
- Aspects: *fv *ec *ft
- Links to:
Solution: Diversification
- More:
- Who: m445
- But: "As climate risks will affect every sector of the economy, the financial system cannot diversify out of them" [m445]
- Aspects: *qv *ec *ae *ft
- Links to:
Solution: Challenge those in the Economy
- More:
- "1. if you work for a company, find out if it has a plan for transition to net zero; if not why not" [m462], [m480]
- "2. Wherever you put savings and investment, find out if it is being invested towards netzero and, if not, why not. [m463]
- "3. Does your country have a netzero plan?" [m464]
- Who:
- But:
- Aspects: *fv *lg *ft
- Links to:
Solution: Choosing sectors of the economy to shrink or support.
- More:
- "In deciding which sectors of the economy to open and close policy makers must weigh up externaltiies [m328]
- Shrink the harmful sectors [ab]. "Policy-makers should restrict economic activities that have weak economic externalities but high infection externalities, and open, or even subsidise, those with low infection externalities and high and positive economic externalities." [m329]
- Should not the same thinking be applied to environmental externalities like climate change, plastics pollution and biodiversity loss? [ab]
- Covid-19 pandemic offers us a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to shrink sectors by choice and wise consideration rather than by accident, in that some of the harmful ones have already been shrunk, e.g. aviation and other travel. [ab]
- "Legitimacy and fairness demand that we should take into account how the disease and the economic shocks hit different parts of society." [m331]
- Who: m328, ab
- But:
- If we shrink sectors, then we need to consider jobs of those in those sectors. [ab]
- "Obviously, the biggest challenges are in those areas that are essential economically but also highly risky from an infection perspective, like health care, essential travel and education." [m330]
- An even bigger challenge: Well-established sectors are likely to resist, and have huge resources to devote to resisting, and many friends in high places. so it will be a challenge and needs very careful planning. [ab]
- Aspects: *an *ec *jr
- Links to: Good, Harmful, Useless, Externalities, Wisdom
Solution: Changing policy
- More: "Decisions taken early on when information was limited and fear, rampant, shouldn't be set in stone. [m334]
- Who: m334
- But:
- Aspects: *jr
- Links to:
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Solutions we Should Try: Attitudes, Perspectives, etc.
Solution: Define (society's) core purpose before seeking cost-effective interventions
Solution: Wisdom
Solution: know what constitues a true market. [m238]
- More:
- Who:
- But:
- Aspects: *sc *ec *jr
- Links to:
Problem: Need mix of solutions, not just pure green
- More: Not just the 'pure green' but a whole range of "50 shades of green".
- Who: m456
- But: Be careful that the 'brown' end of green mix is not too much, and especially is not made an excuse for doing too little (this is a problem in the ethical aspect.
- Aspects: *fv *ae
- Links to:
Solution: Need a just transition - bear human poverty etc. in mind
- More: "but those coalitions wont hold if we don't have a just transition." Don't wreck the economy and people's livelihoods. [m461]
- Who: m461
- But:
- Danger that over-constraining climate action by the need for 'just transition' will be used to water it down and even prevent it. Climate skeptics in USA have long argued that we must resist climate action because it harms the poor. And then they extend "the poor" to include themselves in their own feeling that their income is not enough to meet their lifestyle aspirations. [ab]
- So do we need a clear idea of what justice is, i.e. what is really due to whom? Maybe Dooyeweerd's aspects can help here? [ab]
- Aspects: *jr *ft
- Links to: Juridical aspect
Solution: Regeneration
Solution: Build from first principles.
Solution: Need to get beyond self-interest
- More:
- "For climate change we need to get beyond individual self-nterest to collective interest" [q307]
- Who:
- But:
- Aspects: *et *ft
- Links to:
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Solutions we Should Try: Structures
Solution: "mobilise mainstream finance" to get companies towards netzero
- More: e.g. investors voting on net-zero plans. [m452]
- Who: m451
- But: "financial system as a whole is funding 3.0 degrees up" [m453]
- Aspects: *sc *ec *ft
- Links to:
Solution:
- More:
- Who:
- But:
- Aspects: *qv *sp *kn *ph *bi *ps *an *fv *lg *sc *ec *ae *jr *et *ft
- Links to:
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CONTINUING THE DISCUSSION
Here a few questions for further discussion are collected.
Issue: Does anyone have any experience in pricing modeling or pricing theory [j216]?
- More:
- Who: j216
- Aspects: *qv *fv *lg *ec
- Links to:
Issue: What are we trying to do, replace or expand GDP? Critique or enrich GDP? [j217]
Issue: What we may need to do is set what we think should be considered efficient [j219].
- More:
- Who: j219
- Aspects: *an *ec *ft
- Links to:
Issue: I propose we all have a conversation together and just state what [our] common day or common week looks like with our consumption, both products, food and services/power.
- More:
- Who: j222
- Aspects: *lg *ec
- Links to:
Issue: "must und first causes of crisis" [m405]
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *an *fv *ft
- Links to:
Issue: "what else should we pursue (besides money)?" [z221]
- More: Maybe list of Christian values?
- Who: z221
- Aspects: *fv *ft
- Links to:
Issue: "What's involved in rethinking the economy?" [z101]
- More:
- Which areas of issues are there, which can be challenged with rethinking? [z102]
- What prevents us rethinking? [e.g. presuppositions?] [z103]
- Who: z101
- Aspects: *an *fv *ec *ft
- Links to: Need to rethink
Issue: How to articulate different values yet achieve shalom
- More: There is a line there (about articulating different values towards shalom) that's not quite clear yet [z231]. ***
- "We set up money as negotiating these. Either use money to represent this. Or else not money, but assert our values." [z232]
- xn: Humility, self-giving love, true listening, etc. [ab]
- Both RG and NO are trying to work out how to bring different kinds of value together. [z235]
- Dooyeweerd: those are good functioning in various aspects.
- Who: z231
- Aspects: *fv *ft
- Links to: Ethical aspect, Rethinking, Shalom, Values
Issue: Discuss when it is appropriate to measure and when not
- More:
- Who: z256
- Aspects: *qv #an #ft
- Links to: Measuring,
Issue: Look at the European Social Survey
- More: At least as our starting-point, launch pad
- To see which aspects ESS covers and which is does not, and link those to the economy.
- And combine perhaps with Christian values
- Who: z251
- Aspects:
- Links to: what do we value?,
Issue: Think about concept of dominion viewed as enrichment r.t. dominion as control. *** [z261]
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *fv *ft ....
- Links to:
Issue:
- More:
- Who:
- Aspects: *fv *ft ....
- Links to:
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